Nothing much happened today. Spent all day on the computer and all night watching TV...
Firstly I watched episodes two and three of new Channel 4 US import "Invasion" on video, and I think I will continue to watch - although I missed the pilot due to bad video recorder programming...
Then we both watched the first of this evening's episodes of Coronation St, which as as entertaining as ever. We taped the second and Anne will probably end up watching that on her own...
Then, at 8, the best programme of the year so far...
Richard Dawkins' documentary "The Root of All Evil? Pt 1 : The God Delusion"...
In my description below, I've quoted freely from the programmes microsite at www.channel4.com
Like me, Richard Dawkins is astounded that religious faith is gaining ground in the face of rational, scientific truth based on hard evidence....
In this two-part series, he challenges what he describes as 'a process of non-thinking called faith'...
It seems amazing that, at the start of the 21st Century, religious faith is gaining ground in the face of rational, scientific truth...
Especially since science, based on scepticism, investigation and evidence, must continuously test its own concepts and claims whilst faith, by definition, defies evidence: it is untested and unshakeable, and is therefore in direct contradiction with science and, I would say, reality......
In addition, though religions preach morality, peace and hope, in fact, they bring intolerance, violence and destruction...
The growth of extreme fundamentalism in so many religions across the world not only endangers humanity but is in conflict with the trend over thousands of years of history for humanity to progress – to become more enlightened and more tolerant...
I felt sorry for the poor Catholics (and others) traipsing to Lourdes year after year in search of some miracle cure. 80,000 descend on the town annually and have done so for over 100 years. So that's around 8 million who, over a century, have placed their faith in a miracle restoring them to good health...
The Catholic Church has recorded just 66 authenticated cures (excluding of course anything actually astounding e.g. the growing back of a severed limb)....
Give it up guys...
It's not difficult to demolish the claims of religion as fairytales, and dangerous ones at that. But there is more to religion than ancient stories and articles of faith...
People are seduced by the sense of belonging promised by religious groups - but this is a 'shared delusion'. If you are one person believing yourself to be Napoleon, it's pretty hard to keep it up. But if you are one of millions sharing in the same delusion which has been drummed into you since birth then...
Can't wait for part two next week, "The Virus of Faith"..
Brilliant..
This was followed by new BBC1 drama "Life on Mars" which was just "ok" but good enough for me to tune in again next week...
Then the great political satire "The Thick of It" which was hilarious and is a "must see" item..
Then I listened to Robert Fripp's excellent soundscapes CD "Love Cannot Bear" before retiring...
I'll leave you with the thought that, apparently, around 45% of the population of the USA believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old...
Highlight of the Day : "The Root of All Evil? Pt 1 : The God Delusion"
7 comments:
"My Name is Earl" was excellent - this from my entry on Friday
'After this nap (and much noisy snoring apparently - although Anne can provide no actual evidence of this), I am wide awake for new US import “My Name is Earl”. The first episode bodes well for the series...'
Sorry for the delay in your comment appearing - to allow non-bloggers to post, I now moderate comments before they're published.
I receive the following vcoment on this topic by e-mail:-
From: Stuart Brandwood To: crispycat@hotmail.com
Subject: http://crispycat-recordings.blogspot.com/
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:01:49 +0000 (GMT)
'Traipsing' to Lourdes isn't really about cures, it's
just what the cynics focus on.......the majority of
people who go are as healthy as your or me. It's
become a tradition to take the sick along with us but
that's not what it's about.
It's really about togetherness....going there along
with your fellow pilgrims to make your devotions and
talk to your God. No-one is holding up signs saying
"Come to Lourdes and be cured". People go, they see,
they join in, they meet new people, they help each
other.
In an age where kids are all supposed to be
glue-sniffing, hoodied ASBO cases we have 100s of
young'ns desperate to get onto the Lourdes coaches to
travel down to Southern France and do one thing :
Spend the week helping people.
It's easy to sneer and deride things you've not really
understood. It's funny how much religious intolerance
comes along from evangelical atheists. I'm sure the
show set out to attack the dangerous fundamentalist
element of religion (and, if you'll excuse the choice
of phrase, Amen to that) but mocking people's innocent
journeys of faith isn't really good journalism.
Regards
Stuart
I replied as follows:-
Hi Stuart - thanks for your reply
The programme did in fact focus on the "togetherness" of Lourdes and indeed the "togetherness" of mass faith, which makes it all the more comforting for those taking part.
You are correct to say that the danger in the world stems from Christian and Muslim Fundamentalism, but neither of those would exist were it not for the "curse" of religion.
It's a shame that so many billions around the world feel they need religion to cope with their everyday lives or have been so brainwashed from an early age into thinking that what they've been told is absolute truth without ever thinking perhaps they could do with some actual evidence that what they are being told is true....
I agree of course that may of those billions do indeed draw great strength from their faith. It's just disappointing that in this day and age, people still feel the need to rely on faith in stories created hundreds of years ago to get through their lives. Indeed I know many people in this position, including members of my own family and my wife's family.
Are you telling me you honestly believe the Virgin Mary flew up to heaven - a story created in the 4th Century AD but, in 1950, proclaimed as indisputable fact by Pope Pius XII speaking ex cathedra (infallibly) after he was supposedly told so by God whilst in a room on his own at the Vatican?
Or do you honestly believe that the prophet Mohammed also miraculously flew up to heaven when his life came to an end?
If the answer to either of these questions is "yes" then I would ask, based on what evidence?
And if every sperm is sacred (re the non-use of condoms) surely millions are wasted as it only takes one to fertilise an egg and the Pope and his priests sperm are surely also wasted by their having to be celibate - unless they don't actually produce any sperm - but that's getting a wee bit off topic. It's just so easy to point out the paradoxes and stupidity when discussing elements of belief based on blind faith rather than proof..
The Cathloic church's opposition to the use of condoms in countries where HIV/AIDS is rife is surely indefensible?
As are suicide bombings carried out by Muslims...
And yes I'd rather have youngsters going to Lourdes than terrorising their neighbours but, by the same token, I'd rather have youngsters being taught reason than blind faith which leads to the horrors we see all over the world in the 21st Century thanks to religion..
Whatever our opposite views, and I'm not an "evangelical atheist" - if anything, I am a Humanist - I enjoyed your e-mail and wish you all the best.
Kind regards
A further response from Stuart Brandwood:-
From: Stuart Brandwood
To: crispycat@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: http://crispycat-recordings.blogspot.com/
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:20:58 +0000 (GMT)
Yes I do believe something happened at Lourdes....I
couldn't tell you what primarily 'cause it's more
about how you feel towards it. It's a special place
not only because of whatever happened but what's
happened since. I do genuinely believe in God, I've
thought long and hard about it and it didn't really do
any good 'cause at the end of the day I've just always
known it to be the case.
A Catholic like me and an atheist like your good self
will never be able to sit down ov4er a pint and sway
each other round cause it's an oil and water debate.
My 'faith' (for want of a better word) will prevent me
from taking your view and your lack of faith (that
sounds really negative so you see why I wanted a
better word) will prevent you from ever seeing mine.
> It's a shame that so many billions around the world
feel they need religion
> to cope with their everyday lives or have been so
brainwashed from an early
> age into thinking that what they've been told is
absolute truth without ever
> thinking perhaps they could do with some actual
evidence that what they are being told is true....
Why is it a shame the people believe in
something?...why do you automatically assume it's
brainwashing. Do you really believe that random
charlatan preachers up and down the ages, from every
single culture you'd care to mention have managed to
con people from every generation? Whatever name you
give it there is some innate sense of god (with a
small g) that people have always sensed not just
through ignorance, Stephen Hawking believes in god.
People give it different names God, Allah, Yahweh,
Vishnu right through to Tlaloc and Tangaroa or The
Force there is something in all people and it's
something good. You might rationalise it out into
something called conscience or consciousness...either
way, whatever it ends up getting called it's all good.
I believe the fundamentalist element would always come
to the fore and that people's religious beliefs are
the easiest way for the radicals to express their
despotic rage. Look at Stalinist Russia & Maoist China
they still managed to be a bit mean without using poor
old God as a cover story. Although he hated the Jews
Hitler didn't use religion, that was pure racism. I
not saying that the Church is perfect. As you say It's
record on sex education is awful (But in mitigation
let's not forget that in Africa there'd still be huge
cultural resistance to condom use) and it's history is
littered with shameful episodes but at the end of the
day if you boil 99% of all religions down you end up
with "Be excellent to one another". Stick with that
and you won't go far wrong (dude).
Your point about evidence is an interesting one 'cause
when me and my mates get these atheist/believer type
debates started up in the pub (where better place) one
paradox that does come up is this. If you are asked
the question "Do you believe in alien life?" you'd get
called naive if you said you didn't whereas you get
called naive if you say you believe in God when
truthfully there is more evidence for the existence of
Jesus than there is for the existence of Julius Ceasar
(although that 'marvelous' BBC 'docu-drama' Rome might
well have gone someway to redress this balance). You
seem fairly eager to ignore the various eye witnesses
who've reported seeing the virgin Mary at Lourdes,
Guadalupe, Fatima, Knock, Assuit, Medjugorje etc etc.
I won't bother with the various miracles as they are a
difficult one to square...I don't use them as a basis
for my faith but they certainly don't dissuade me of
the notion that there's more in the universe than we
understand.
> It's just disappointing that in this day and age,
people
> still feel the need to rely on faith in stories
> created hundreds of years ago to get through their
lives.
People always take inspiration from the past. Great
leaders, artists, poets, historic events, anecdotes,
fables & proverbs. Religion is part of our heritage.
Remembering to be a Good Samaritan is no different.
Your point about every sperm being sacred is a bit
mischievous however I can certainly acknowledge that
the churches dogma is something sets peoples teeth
grinding. Putting my apologist/devils advocate hat on
I'd say for better or worse the church has taken an
anti-promiscuity line and decided that barrier
contraception are an aid to promiscuity, the wrongs
and rights of this decision are up for debate however
it's not entirely without merit. Perhaps promiscuity
is something shouldn't be encouraged and perhaps
abortion shouldn't be used as a form of retrospective
contraception because regardless of whether it's
capable of surviving on it's own the churches view is
that once sperm meets egg then *bang* it's a piece of
life. We live in a country awash with teenage
pregnancies and with clap clinics full to bursting,
surely the Catholic church can't be solely to blame
for this? We also live in a country where mothers get
dispensation to have late abortions on 'ugly' cleft
lipped babies and the national pregnancy advisory
service tell women well past the legally prescribed
abortion point which other countries to go to to get a
termination on a foetus that would have a fairly good
chance of survival if it were induced. Perhaps it's
the churches job to be a lone voice speaking out
against promiscuity and abortion. No-one wants
puritanical abstinence and no-one, least of all me,
really wants abortion outlawed but I daresay most
people would call for moderation these days.
In short (ha ha) religion offers a lot to a lot people
and is prevalent enough to be called natural (that's a
hell of a statement I know). It's both a moral compass
and provides a sense of community. Yes, it is an easy
target for people to pervert in the cause of evil but
should it be written off as a curse because of this?
Anyway thanks for writing back
Here's to both oil & water and alcohol (which I get
free every week at mass).
Stuart
And my response, hopefully closing the correspondence:-
Hi Stuart - thanks for your further thoughts.
Of course we'll never agree - because I require proof that something exists whereas you are content to believe without incontravertible proof.
I know it cannot be proven that God does not exist, but of course that does not mean he does.
You say yourself that your belief that something happened at Lourdes is based on a "feeling".
You say you believe in the existence of God because you've "always known it to be the case".
Why does your faith stop you from looking for empirical evidence rather than unproven traditional stories handed down through the ages?
I can indeed see your point of view. But I cannot ever agree with belief based on blind faith.
You ask "why is it a shame the people believe in something?"
I say, many billions of people around the world believe things because they have been proven to be true. Faith proves nothing other than that mass delusion is possible if supported by tradition leading to believing in so called "facts" without any evidence.
Yes I honestly believe that "preachers up and down the ages, from every single culture you'd care to mention have managed to con people from every generation?" but I grant you that the majority will not have done so with any malice aforethought - they will have done it without asking about truth and evidence.
Yes there is an innate sense of god in people but that is nothing whatsoever to do with a higher being. If God created the universe, who created God? If God can pop into existence from nothing, then why can't the universe? Or you could argue I suppose that God has "always" existed. But that then denies the existence of Time - but then you'll say God exists outwith Time.
Which is all good and well - but where's the proof??
I believe the innate feeling you talk about is good - it is religion which corrupts that goodness however, by encouraging people to believe one way of thinking unquestioningly and that that way of thinking is correct to the exclusion of all else.
Science stands to be disproved and progressed. Religion does not progress. It is written in stone (by man).
I don't deny that atheists have killed many people throughout history. But two blacks do not make a white. Religion, like racism can often lead to the reduction of humans to non-humans worthy only of slaughter because of who they are or what they believe being different to the being or belief of the perpetrators of such atrocities.
I don't believe any humanist ever became a suicide bomber or carried out a crusade.
Yes the Roman Catholic church's record on sex education is awful because it's based on traditions from another time, totally out of kilter with the mores of society today.
People often ask what would happen to morals if religion were removed. This is preposterous. Do they believe that, without religion, humans would become rutting beasts? People have their own morality. The underlying rule is surely not to do harm to others (which, as you say, is at the base of almost all religions - but which is denied by fundamentalism)
On the question of evidence and your analogy of belief in God and belief in aliens, as you well know, a believer in God does not seek proof that their belief is true as it is based on faith. Belief in aliens on other planets somewhere in the universe is based on statistics but still seeks proof of their existence before it can ever be stated as fact - unlike the Catholic church's assertion that the acension of Mary into heaven is a "fact".
There may well be "more evidence for the existance of Jesus than Julius Caesar" (though, as you are no doubt aware, much of it miraculously appeared in translations of writings hundreds of years after Jesus' death and is at odds with the texts into which it has been inserted). But evidence of the existence of Jesus is not evidence of the existence of God.
An eye witness who saw the appearance of the Virgin Mary at Lourdes is all very well - but at the end of the day, it's merely hearsay.
As you say, there is certainly more in the universe than we understand - but we should seek to understand it by studying it, not by believing hearsay.
I agree people take inspiration from the past and from past traditions - but just because somethinghas been doen or been believed for a long time does not make it any ,more or less true.
Length of Time does not equal Strength of Truth (hey, I quite like that)
You say "The church has taken an anti-promiscuity line.
Surely it's up to the individual to decide for themself what is best for them?
Teenage preganancies are caused by the actions of irresponsible individuals who have chosen not to use contraception (or who may have done so but been unlucky). Again, nothing to do with religion.
Rather than railing against abortion as you do, you should consider the implications for the parents (or parent) in proceding with the pregnancy and the eventual overall cost to society as a whole.
Religion is certainly prevalent but it is against human nature since it is not based on truth but on faith.
It is a moral compass but people can be moral without religion - and it does provide a sense of community but can also lead to terible acts of evil against humanity.
The bottom line is that it is not based on empirical truth notr does it seek it. It is, therefore invalid as a belief system.
Religion is inded a curse on humanity.
Thanks again for continuing the debate - though I don't think there's much point in going any further since neither of us will move. I do, however, have the satisfaction of knowing what is true through the use of evidence. You have the satisfaction of blindly believing in something, the existence of which cannot be proven and so, which, in the end, is an empty belief.
Regards
A quick comeback from Stuart Brandwood
From: Stuart Brandwood
To: crispycat@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: http://crispycat-recordings.blogspot.com/
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:46:27 +0000 (GMT)
I suppose you are right but you know to me an atheist
debating the existence of god is like your goldfish
debating the existence of water. I notice you had no
answer to my "Free booze" trump card either.
This has been fun...Imagine what our debate would have
been like if me and you were fundamentalists in our
respective beliefs!
Thanks again for getting back to me.
Stuart
And my final response:-
Stuart
There'd be guns - there'd be one of us blowing ourself up whilst standing next to the other.
I enjoyed the debate but it's taxing to type so much with just two fore fingers (I do have other fingers of course!)
Don't get your point re the goldfish. It surely has empirical evidence the water is there.
So your analogy would be a human debating the existence of air?
Which is a long way from an atheist debating the existence of god. Whilst it can easily be proven air exists, the existence of God remains unproven (so far)
OK I've gone too far again!
Cheers
PS That's just not enough free booze - and many would say it's hardly free considering what you have to do to get it!
PPS I have added our correspondence to the comments section under the original blog entry
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